The Third Growth Option with Benno Duenkelsbuehler and Guests
Welcome to The Third Growth Option, where we're not just talking about growth—we're making it our mission.
At TGO, we understand that success isn't a fixed destination; it's an ongoing journey with twists, turns, and unexpected detours that take us to new places. Those moments are our Third Growth Options, where we throw away binary choices to create our own path.
Hosted by Benno Duenkelsbuehler, O.G #GrowthNerd, we're on a mission to redefine success inside and outside of business, one episode at a time. From humble beginnings to Fortune 500 companies, our stories are not just about business—it's about the relentless pursuit of greatness in every aspect of life.
With each episode, we don’t just want to share insights—we want to empower business owners across all frontiers to carve their own path to success, their way.
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The Third Growth Option with Benno Duenkelsbuehler and Guests
Attracting Top Talent with Colleen Pfaller
Are you looking for a Third Growth Option ℠ ?
This episode highlights the vital role of branding in attracting and retaining top talent in today's job market. Colleen Pfaller discusses insights from an employee value perception study, emphasizing the importance of authentic employer branding and cultural contribution.
• Understanding the evolving role of HR in attracting talent
• Insights from the employee value perception study
• Employees prioritize brands they identify with
• The importance of authentic branding over superficial perceptions
• Culture as a dynamic aspect needing nurturing and growth
• Emphasizing cultural contribution rather than mere fit
• The challenge of building a unique brand in a competitive market
• Strategies for aligning employer branding with company values
• Cultivating an authentic and engaging workplace environment
• Encouragement to rethink branding strategies for better retention
Always growing.
Benno Duenkelsbuehler
CEO & Chief Sherpa of (re)ALIGN
Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast, where we talk about all things growth, yes, even and especially those hard parts where you shed some skin and pick yourself up by the bootstraps. Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler, growth Sherpa and OG hashtag growth nerd. We're on a mission to redefine success inside and outside the business, one TGO episode at a time.
Speaker 2:Hello, I'm Colleen Fowler. I'm the principal of HR consulting in Cincinnati Ohio at One Digital. Of HR Consulting in Cincinnati Ohio at One Digital.
Speaker 3:Hey, colleen, I am so glad to have you on this podcast. My name is Benno, host of Third Growth Option Podcast, and welcome, and Colleen. So you and I are both Vistage members we're in the same Vistage group so I've gotten to know you over the years and you are what I would call an atypical HR professional, because I've never met an HR professional who is also an entrepreneur, started up her own business and sold it, exited it. You know these are the cool words that the startup community uses and private equity. You know you did a startup, you did an exit. So you are, in my mind, much more than an HR professional. You are an HR professional, but you're much more than that, because you're also an entrepreneur and a business person.
Speaker 3:And so what I really want to talk, what I want you to share with our listeners, is your thoughts on attracting talent right, attracting talent, recruiting, then retaining dedicated employees. You know it's difficult. You add low unemployment to that. You add fast changing needs due to AI is going to change, is starting to rock our worlds and as we'll continue to do so faster and faster. So getting good employees is hard and everybody is. Employers are just keen to get a leg up here right, because it's an important part of any growth strategy. So you shared with me, a month ago or so, an employee value perception study. Tell us about that, and what did that tell you in terms of this brand? Well, just tell us about this value perception study.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been like kind of back to some of your previous points too. It's been a cool time to be in human resources, to your point. Like I remember you know I major I started out as an accounting major and telling my dad I was going to switch to human resources and he was an engineer and kind of the look of panic on his face because what on earth would you ever do with a human human resources degree? Like you know, accounting is the nuts and the bolts of a business and fast forward to the last few years.
Speaker 2:Human resources has really kind of stepped up right in the last few years and it kind of paired well with growing a business, right. It became a real need for businesses, especially, you know, you know, in 2020,. You know, finding talent and the low employment you know stats and finding and keeping talent, all those things that you mentioned. It just really became a high priority item for business owners. You know, not just for the sector of human resources, which I've always kind of been focused on in my 20 years, just because that's the field that I was in, that was the department I was leading, but as a business owner and as you're talking to business owners, that suddenly became the thing that they were most concerned about, you know.
Speaker 1:It became a hot button.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it became a hot button. So we joined One Digital earlier this year. So, as you mentioned, our company was, we joined up with One Digital and now I have a position within that company and they did a value proposition study and they really wanted to get to the root of that. What is it that keep employees at certain organizations? And there's been a lot of theories over the years. So they surveyed like 3,000 employees. What is it? Is it the benefits? Is it the pay?
Speaker 2:And then there's a lot of things HR professionals have been talking about over the years, culture being a huge one that people have been talking about. How do we build those cultures, those best places of work? Is it leadership and development? You know that's been a long time narrative that people don't quit companies, right, they quit leaders. That we hear. You know that culture of belonging.
Speaker 2:You know there's a lot of different theories that keep employees different places and you know I've always kind of ascribed to the value that you know people are people, right, and we can look for trends and similarities, but really a lot of times it comes down to talking to people and each person being different, and so one of the things that, to your point that came up on this survey. The number one thing among all these different things that we've looked at for years was branding. The number one thing people were looking for was like a brand that they identified with when they were looking at their employer choices, and it kind of rocked people's world. They were really surprised to see that they were looking for a brand that they identified with.
Speaker 3:What do you think that means? Because the word brand is also misunderstood right, because it means 12 things to 10 people. People are like well, the brand is the logo. No, the brand is not it. Right, because it means 12 things to 10 people. People are like well, the brand is the logo. No, the brand is not the logo. The brand is more than the logo. Yeah, the Coca-Cola logo is cool, but the Coca-Cola brand is about much more than the logo and the color red, right? So what do you think employees mean by the brand? And the reputation is the most important part of choosing an employer and sticking with an employer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was like some analysis on the report. You know there's kind of two different theories on it. Some of the analysis on it was like people going on and looking at Reddit and Glassdoor and kind of that social awareness of the brand. You know people want to work for a company that is well-known and well-thought of. Has a good reputation, yeah, you know I want to work for somebody that you know has a positive reputation out in the market.
Speaker 2:You know I want to work for a place that People know, Social responsibility was one of the things on it that didn't score as high as branding For me, something that I've seen just intrinsically with one of the things. What our company does is just to backtrack a little bit is we're the HR manager basically for about 20 to 30 companies, so for a small business that maybe doesn't have a full HR manager, and outsourced HR. We're outsourced, so we kind of get that inside look of being part of the team.
Speaker 2:We get to be like part of the team for like 20 or 30 organizations and the ones that I think do it really really well are the ones that kind of own who they are. So I saw it written on a notebook at Walmart once and it said what did it say? It said show, show your vibe, attract your tribe. Like show your vibe, attract your tribe. I saw it at Walmart once and I was like, yeah, attractor tribe.
Speaker 3:I saw it at walmart once and I was like, yeah, and it always. But you know what I? I I love that because I I think, um, I I think of, of branding, whether that's employer branding, like we're talking about for winning the talent wars, or, you know, commercial branding in a, in a marketing sense, I think of it as you know, the, the magnet and magnets. A good magnet, a strong magnet, attracts and repels. So you add, a strong magnet will not, should not and will never attract everything. So you have and I think that's where people get themselves in trouble with any kind of outward messaging, be that branding or marketing. Or how do you talk as an HR person to attract talent? They want to be everything to everybody and tell people what they want to hear, instead of telling them what they need to hear, which is, hey, we're this kind of a company, which means we're not that kind of Totally agree and that's what I think the companies that do it.
Speaker 2:Well, like a few years ago and you know we just say this a lot of podcasts but we started like kind of defining what's good and what's bad. Right, like we started doing like surveys and we defined it like okay, this is what gets you on a list that makes you a good company. And then we kind of started quantifying what makes the company good and what makes it bad. Okay but, people can't like.
Speaker 2:You and me probably have two different favorite restaurants right you know, that doesn't make your restaurant good, because it serves me, not you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, whatever your favorite restaurant.
Speaker 2:Mine has chicken wings beer and yours has. I don't know, maybe you're more refined.
Speaker 3:Oh, please, probably not. I doubt it.
Speaker 1:You and me are probably at the same joint.
Speaker 2:Let's be real. But whatever, you know what I mean we started defining. But to your point I agree, and I think that's why that notebook at Walmart spoke to me, because it's like you, you embrace who you are, authenticity. I think that's like why artists like Taylor Swift are speaking to people, because they're just putting it out there, they're being who they are and they're repelling some and attracting others to your point. So you know, for example, we have a, you know, we have a company. They, they love dogs. Everybody brings their dogs to work, you know. So you could sit there and be like well, are we going to exclude the people who love cats?
Speaker 3:You know what do we do.
Speaker 2:And we do have to do that right, like when we're screening people for that job. You know, we do occasionally meet someone who doesn't like dogs.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, and they're not going to be a fit for that company, even though that really has nothing to do with the and that's okay. Right, exactly, exactly, exactly. But it makes it really awesome for those dog loving people Right who work there, right. So I think that's what like culture is, especially when you can tie it intoverted, depending on the kind of work they're doing. You know, we all don't need to be out socializing and partying and happy houring it up beers in the fridge every day.
Speaker 3:You know, some, some companies, they're gonna, you know their brand's gonna be different based on what they do, like you talked about this bolt company, the bolt company 15 years ago. Right, I know right tell me that story like you were in the lobby of a bolt company. I don't know, were you applying for a job?
Speaker 2:or, yeah, this was a company that I had interviewed. Uh, I interviewed for and, um, you know, they made a bolt, they manufactured a bolt and you know, you know, exciting yeah for me. You know, I I come from a long line of engineers married to engineers. At least a couple of my children are going to grow up wait, you married a couple of engineers wait, did I say married a couple.
Speaker 3:I don't, I think you just I've only married one.
Speaker 2:I'm raising I'm married one I'm raising at least a couple of engineers. They don't know it yet, but they will be. They don't know it yet. Um so, all the love in my heart, but for me I can't even. I can't even like barely screw a picture into a wall. You know, like, um, so I'm in here and, and you know, they're passionate. They said we're passionate about this. You know this product we make and all these things it does.
Speaker 3:And I'm just like, and they have it in a glass container in the front of the room, and I walked out of that interview and I'm like I just can't muster up the enthusiasm for this particular product, for this particular product and that to me like if that bolt company who was so proud of the bolt they made and they had it in a glass case and they talked you know, they were the bolt people If they had said well, you know, we also want to attract people that are not so much into bolts and that are, maybe, you know, into blah, blah, blah. And then you dilute it, you water it down and you become everything. You become nothing to nobody. If you try to be everything to everybody, you become nothing to nobody.
Speaker 3:And I think that, to me, is what in today's world, where communication through the internet is amplified everywhere right, I mean just the way, I mean people like you and me, companies like One Digital or Realign show up in dozens of places online our website, our social media pages, our LinkedIn profiles, dozens and dozens of different places, some which we have control over, some of which we don't. Like last war, right, that's other people talking about us. There's so much information out there that the companies that are trying to brand themselves in a in an unauthentic way, they're going to be found out, because we've developed a for realizing the difference between fake branding and this is a cool company, because somebody is disagreeing openly and not getting shot at Dawn for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree. And there's something strange that has happened in HR for the last few years where, like, when you go to like, do the branding for your like marketing? Let's say, you go out and you are like I want to have a logo that's unique, right, Like like when I started my company, when you started your company, I'm sure we weren't like, hey, what's every company that is doing? When I want my logo to look exactly like every company, but for some reason in HR we get this all the time. They're like what's everyone else doing?
Speaker 2:I want to do exactly the same. So it's been kind of cool to see like it's starting to turn a little bit right. We're starting to get organizations that are like okay, what can we do? That's different. What can we do? That's different. What can we do? That's unique? Um, instead of always asking, like you know, getting the survey data like what's everyone doing? Okay, 80 are, you know, doing this? Okay, let's do that too.
Speaker 2:It's really weird in hr like everyone's trying to follow the curve and so we're always trying to say, like you know, what can you do? That's like different really different and really cool, and sometimes it doesn't even have to be like expensive or you know um Sorry.
Speaker 3:It's okay, you got stuff going on.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I'm so sorry, I thought.
Speaker 3:I turned that off. It's all good, you're a busy woman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry, busy, busy. Probably somebody wanting an idea right now, exactly.
Speaker 3:No, but you're the third growth option. Podcast.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right. You're second. You have to make a number. Yeah, that's right. But you know we're trying to do that more and more with like building that into your HR strategy like a creative element to it not just, you know, looking at best practices, analyzing it.
Speaker 2:Ok, you know there will always be a compliance part of HR. There's always going to be I-9s, there's always going to be applications, there's always going to be training. But what can you do that's unique and different, that plays into your client, not your client, your employee base. That they're going to think is really awesome. You know, if you have a group of accountants, what do accountants like to do? You know what is really important to them.
Speaker 3:That's a really good question, by the way. I've not figured out the answer.
Speaker 2:And you know, guess who's going to have the answer? It's going to be the employees. So that's where, like when we go in, we do the compliance piece, but we also do an organizational assessment piece where we go and ask the employees what makes your organization unique, what do you like about your organization, what do you?
Speaker 3:and and and try to get some of that information from them so that they're telling you what's unique and different and you can kind of as the business owner, amplify that and play amplify that their voice right, not right yeah, not what you think it's interesting because I, I think the world we grew up in, you know so, I, you know, I went to school in the 70s and the 80s, right, um, and you know, back then it was a different, it was a pre-internet world, it was a, you know, there were three channels of on the television right abc and cbs and nbc, and your, your light went off. Just oh, it did. Yeah, your light went off, not now you're kind of looking bluish but it's okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I just put everything off that might blink, that's all right.
Speaker 3:That's all right, it's fine. So we, we grew up in sort of a monochromatic world. Right, three channels on tv, you had you, we were taught to fit in. Yeah, it was about cultural fit. Like, I mean, cultural fit is sort of an hr word from you know, maybe the, maybe 10 years ago and 20 and 30 years ago. I think. Now it's about standing out.
Speaker 1:I think, we're teaching.
Speaker 3:I think it is up to everybody, both employees and employers, on a, you know, branding level, to stand out.
Speaker 2:I love that. I hope that's true, um, because I would love that for us. I think that's that's how you, I think that's how you make it. I think that's you got to do something a little bit different. You know, I'm sure you found that in your business. I know that I found that in mine. You know you had to kind of, at least from a marketing and sales perspective, you've got to do things a little bit different.
Speaker 3:And I think the word culture you're right has been sort of beaten to death in a way. I mean, it's just sort of, you know, look, I love the phrase that. I think it was Peter Drucker, you know, who said culture has strategy for breakfast, right? So culture is important, of course, but I think we've had some companies sort of just overdo it and, you know, sort of put the word cult into culture. I've worked early in my career. My first one of my, I mean my first big company that I ever worked for, was Ikea. I worked for Ikea for five years. Great culture, but close to cult, ish, right, it was close to. You know, everybody had blue and yellow running through their veins, right and and and that's a danger and, and I always talk about.
Speaker 3:You know, you have, um, you know, instead of using the word cultural fit, I think you have to be about cultural. You have to look for cultural contribution, right. Encourage your people, your team members, to contribute to this culture in your own way. So don't't go against it. Don't be, you know, the rebel without a cause, right, but contribute to the culture, because if you're just looking to fit in, it becomes like a sorority, fraternity, where everybody looks the same, speaks the same, wears the same, and then it becomes a cult, right.
Speaker 3:So is that am I hearing? I don't want to put words in your mouth, Colleen, but I think what I'm hearing you say is that employer branding is really important for the recruiting process, the retaining means. You know, showing the warts and accepting the fact that you know we're not perfect. You know it's not stepford wives, is that?
Speaker 2:yeah, and and nurturing it as you grow right, like so. A lot of the businesses we work with are small so a lot of times that's going to be like the owner.
Speaker 2:The owner is going to kind of drive that and then like, as you're talking about bigger companies, like you know, an Ikea or companies like that, nurturing that right, so, so, as they grow, you know, being a little bit more intentional of that and making sure it doesn't become something where it's, you know you're, you're dictating it, but what's the you know what's the core elements of it and um, being organic, right yeah.
Speaker 2:Being more organic about it and and make sure it's aligning around what you're doing as a business, right? So I think where companies get it wrong is, you know, like you know, for instance, like you know, a Coke like that should somehow be aligned around the product you know. Or even an Ikea, like you know, it should probably be around like living you know comfortable living and you know simplicity, and I don't know you were there, you could probably describe it more to me it should be aligned around the mission and the drive and the bottom line of the company and what they're trying to sell and produce and put into the world. Somehow we've gotten off-kilter a little bit. Where the branding isn't the employee part of it is this whole. It's whole different life.
Speaker 2:You know it's like right you know, like okay, we're all about. You know I don't want to pick on work-life balance, but like, okay, work-life balance, okay, okay. How does that align into the company mission? You know, you know what I mean. Like they shouldn't be three separate sets of values. They should all flow into like one thing that supports and drives the mission of the company.
Speaker 3:I don't know. Yeah, no, I mean a good example of what you're talking about at IKEA. So IKEA's mission statement amazing that, like I've let I left that company. I mean I worked in that company in my mid to late 20s, which was more than a decade ago. Their mission statement is I'm going to paraphrase it, not get it exactly right we improve the everyday life of the majority of people. So everyday life and majority of people speaks to. You know, we have home furnishings at a price level that most people can afford it. We have stores that you know make you comfortable, whether you walk in by yourself or with your family, or three different generations, with the grandparents or the grandkids. So therefore there is a restaurant there, right? So, like all this whole idea of majority of people, everyday life and majority of people, it translated into the way that we were inside the office. Right, we had, you know, we the dress code was jeans or, you know, casual there.
Speaker 3:The CEO didn't have a corner office.
Speaker 3:In fact, he happened to be in a cubicle next to my cubicle and just not because I was, I didn't report to him at age 27, right, but that's just kind of the way. It was a very sort of democratic flat organization where people were just, you know, there was not a lot of privilege, you know, like corner office privilege for the C-suite. In fact there was no C-suite, it was just he was called the country manager. The CEO for North America was called the country manager, so the title was not intimidating, right? But I think what I'm hearing you say and again, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what I'm hearing you say, colleen, is for employers to attract top talent, be intentional about how you're perceived out in the world on Glassdoor, through your website, through your media, through your employer branding, and find that right balance between strategically showing people what you do and being authentic and organic and and let people be people, right yeah, yeah, I think that's that's what people want.
Speaker 2:They want it, they want authenticity. If everybody's looking for something, something real, right now, you know something to connect to awesome, uh, colleen.
Speaker 3:Uh, if folks wanted to reach out to you one-on-one, where is a good place to find you? Is it just LinkedIn? Colleen Fowler.
Speaker 2:Yeah, linkedin is a great place to find me. It's Colleen, I'm sure you'll have it written somewhere.
Speaker 3:Oh, spell it out, spell it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's with a P, as in Paul, and an F, as in Frank Colleen Fowler. You can find me on LinkedIn. Email me. We're with One Digital.
Speaker 3:And it's onedigitalcom. Is it just one digit O-N-E digitalcom? Yep Onedigitalcom Giving a little plug to the people that bought your company. That's awesome, hey. Hey, this was a great conversation. I appreciate you blowing off some other people while we were recording this.
Speaker 2:Uh I'm sorry, it's all good.
Speaker 3:It's all good um, you're a hard woman to get a hold of, but no, this, this, this was good. And um, I'll give a little plug to my business in this context. We're a growth agency. I've heard it said time and again that one of the best retention strategies is a growth strategy, because people want to belong to companies, work for companies that are growing. Absolutely to belong to companies, work for companies that are growing.
Speaker 3:So that you know Absolutely, I'm not going to go off on a self-promotional tangent there, but I'll just leave it at that.
Speaker 2:Colleen, this was great. Yeah, I really appreciate the invite, so thanks so much for the conversation and being on your podcast.
Speaker 3:Awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, benno.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this episode of TGO podcast. You can find all episodes on our podcast page at wwwrealign4resultscom. You can find me, Benno, host of TGO podcast, there as well. Just email Benno B-E-N-N-O at realignforresultscom. Let's keep growing, Thank you.
