The Third Growth Option with Benno Duenkelsbuehler and Guests
Welcome to The Third Growth Option, where we're not just talking about growth—we're making it our mission.
At TGO, we understand that success isn't a fixed destination; it's an ongoing journey with twists, turns, and unexpected detours that take us to new places. Those moments are our Third Growth Options, where we throw away binary choices to create our own path.
Hosted by Benno Duenkelsbuehler, O.G #GrowthNerd, we're on a mission to redefine success inside and outside of business, one episode at a time. From humble beginnings to Fortune 500 companies, our stories are not just about business—it's about the relentless pursuit of greatness in every aspect of life.
With each episode, we don’t just want to share insights—we want to empower business owners across all frontiers to carve their own path to success, their way.
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The Third Growth Option with Benno Duenkelsbuehler and Guests
Keep Reinventing After Big Success
Are you looking for a Third Growth Option ℠ ?
Greg Shugar’s story is one of bold moves, big lessons, and strategic pivots. From lawyer to entrepreneur, Greg turned his knack for neckties into Tie Bar, an e-commerce success story that topped its market before he sold it. In this episode, Greg shares the real highs and lows of balancing risk and security, diving into his journey from law to launching brands like Bowties of Vermont and even a bedding business, all while helping shape young entrepreneurs through an incubator program at Florida Atlantic University.
We also get into the evolving playbook of business growth and the reality of adapting traditional strategies for the fast-paced world of social media. Greg breaks down key takeaways from his ventures in home bedding and beyond, showing how industry-specific challenges demand a fresh approach. His passion for fostering innovation in students is just as inspiring as his journey in the business world, full of insights on learning from every turn.
Always growing.
Benno Duenkelsbuehler
CEO & Chief Sherpa of (re)ALIGN
Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast, where we talk about all things growth, yes, even and especially those hard parts where you shed some skin and pick yourself up by the bootstraps. Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler, growth Sherpa and OG hashtag growth nerd. We're on a mission to redefine success inside and outside the business, one TGO episode at a time.
Speaker 2:I'm Greg Sugar. I'm the owner of Bowties of Vermont and Serial Entrepreneur. I'm calling from Boca Raton, Florida.
Speaker 1:Greg, I am so excited to have you here. My name is Benno. I'm the host of Third Growth Option podcast, recording today from Mexico City, and I am so excited about this particular podcast. It is actually at the tail end of the Rosh Hashanah holiday, which is celebrating a new year, repenting, but maybe I think there's also obviously a theme of change, right, when you're talking about the new year and you have a very. You have taken on, I count, six different roles in your career as a lawyer, as a startup entrepreneur of Tybarcom, then retiring figuring out at 40, retiring at 40, I might add, and figuring out what's next, then starting a second business, then starting a third business, and also being an incubator, teacher, professor, with students. So that's, I count six. You know we could argue whether that's 10 or four, but it's a high number. It's a number of significantly different adventures and roles in your life, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's probably a few more. I just don't put them all on LinkedIn, right. But yeah, that's true. I mean, professionally speaking, I pretty much started out as an attorney. I practiced for eight years, hated it, absolutely hated it. I still, to this day, have regular nightmares of being an attorney, and that's not even a lie. It's scary how often. Yeah, my wife and I started an online business in 2004, back in the day, where e-commerce I don't even think the term e-commerce existed in 2004. I'm not sure what we called it e -commerce. I don't even think the term e-commerce existed in 2004. I'm not sure what we called it. And we were one of the first really digitally native direct-to-consumer brands People always talk about. Warby Parker was the first in 2010. We were in 2004. I even remember the founders being interviewed for a lot of TV segments and they would use a lot of familiar language that we would use because we were in the press quite a bit early on and I always used to hear our words in their mouths. Could have been a coincidence?
Speaker 2:But anyway. So I sold that company in 2013. We were the number one selling necktie company in the world, I think for sure the country when we sold it. I'm not sure where they are now. I had a five-year non-compete, during which time I started a new linen company, a bedding company, which we ran for eight years. I became involved in Florida Atlantic University. They were starting up an incubator program called FAU Tech Runway. I was one of five people that helped launch that, Still going strong today, although I'm not involved. I became also a part-time adjunct instructor, teaching entrepreneurship there at FAU to undergraduate business students. And then, in 2019, I purchased the company that I own now, Bowties of Vermont, which was a former competitor of mine. A much smaller business but perfect for, I think, my stage of life where I want to stay active but I just can't kill myself like I used to, and so it keeps me busy. It keeps me in touch, it keeps me like sort of informed in all the changes that go on in e-commerce, while also not completely wearing me down.
Speaker 1:And not going back to the nightmare of being a lawyer attorney.
Speaker 2:And not going back to the nightmare of being a lawyer and turning. Those days will never happen again. I really I could seriously use therapy about it. I'm not even kidding.
Speaker 1:Ask my wife. I know a few lawyers. In fact, I'm married to one.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, there you go. Yeah, a lot of us can use some help, but anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what strikes me about this journey of roles and businesses and sort of reinventing yourself along the way is that you know, some of these things were extremely successful. I would say Tybarcom extremely successful, multimillion-dollar revenue I don't know if that information is public or not, but it is, you said, the biggest tie seller in America online. So one can imagine so very successful and others not successful, maybe even a flop, not successful, maybe even a flop, but the sum. So the parts, successful, successful, not so successful, okay, successful, but the sum of the parts, I think successful, right, because I think you've built sort of each role and each change was a building block or a stepping stone to the next one. Is that fair?
Speaker 2:Well, in my mind, when we sold our business when I was 40, I was fortunate enough to be in a position where I could keep going from an entrepreneurial standpoint. I keep trying new things, but no longer was everything on the line like it was with the first company.
Speaker 2:The first company we started by borrowing. The only equity we had in our home was $50,000. I had nothing in the bank. Whether or not we survived as a family unit even I have three kids was if Tybar made it. Then I sold Tybar. Those things don't exist anymore, and so entrepreneurship and starting businesses and buying businesses is a little less of a nail biter right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. It's almost like I don't want to say a game, but it is a little bit of a game and I love the game. I don't want to say a game, but it is a little bit of a game and I love the game. And, just like most games, I'm not undefeated. Like most teams in sports and anything else, I'm not undefeated by any stretch.
Speaker 2:Not only did I have a company that didn't work out, but I've had many instances of anything from marketing campaigns to product ideas that are complete failures, and so I think it's only natural that entrepreneurs have failures, like nobody's going to be perfect. But I will say a lot of times people always ask me do I sell Tybar too early? Do I ever regret it? And, oddly enough, tybar actually had no mistakes. It was basically as close to undefeated of a company as it can be, and that's why I sold it, because I said there's just no way this lasts. Eventually we're going to screw something up.
Speaker 2:But I'm telling you, it was nine years of accelerated growth and everything I seemed to try worked, and I don't necessarily pat myself on the back for that. I think a lot of it had to do with great timing. In the macro industry of e-commerce. It was growing. There still wasn't a ton of competition from the big guys. Cost per clicks were low, public PR was sort of easier to get, it was easier to get noticed and direct-to-consumer was still growing. So there wasn't a ton of competition.
Speaker 1:So I take some credit for our success, but I do give luck plenty of credit as well, sure anyway, and you know, uh, my, my parents used to always tell me, you know, when I was a teenager, uh, and you know, I'd start going to parties. They would always say I know, you have to leave the party when it's at its best, right, you don't want to hang around the party, you know, like, once the music starts to die down and people are, you know, a little shaky, you don't want to be the last one to leave the party, you want to be one of the first ones, and that's I think kind of what you did with Tybarcom, right, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think we exited like in just the perfect time in so many different ways we talk about. The sexiness of direct-to-consumer started to wane soon after we sold Even neckwear as an industry started to wane as we sold and you know like it just worked out perfectly and again I'd love to take credit for that. But I think some of it was pure luck. But definitely the fear that something's going to go wrong, right, and I can tell you in nine years there we had virtually no losses. But yes, post-sale plenty of mistakes, plenty of losses, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:And actually because the few times that we have spoken in the last few months before today's recording, you've been super transparent and you know sort of an open book about the good and the bad right and you are being right now. So I don't think I'm putting you on the spot here by saying that I think with the business that you started, that home betting for men business that you started like a year after the exit from Tybar, started like a year after the exit from Thai Bar, I think you said one of the reasons that was not successful is because maybe you overused the last playbook which I remember happening to me when I, you know, I was at IKEA and Pottery Barn. You know, in my mid-20s to mid-30s and in my job after Pottery Barn, you know where I was very successful and I was, like you know, right place, right time. I sort of used that playbook when it wasn't applicable for because it was a different kind of company and it was, you know, a few years later.
Speaker 1:Talk a little bit about you know the playbook has to be reinvented as well. Right, are you ready to learn how to evaluate like a Sherpa so you can build new revenues like a Sher? The playbook has to be reinvented as well. Right, where you will learn about growth evaluation concepts and methodologies, problem definition, growth killers, opportunity scoping and goal setting, case studies and group discussions, apply learnings cross-functionally and get a certificate while you're at it, for you, for your company, for your growth growth evaluation workshops, for your growth growth evaluation workshops. For booking, contact Alexis at realignforresultscom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I'm sure many professions change drastically over time, but I could tell you e-commerce is not one of those professions or one of those industries. And in particular, sort of by coincidence, I exited 2013. And so we started the next business. I started my next business 2015. In that tiny two-year period, things had changed drastically.
Speaker 2:Social media marketing basically started during that time, and so I had no understanding of it. Social media consumption had accelerated during that time. That really impacted uh uh, traditional media and their influence on pr, and so we built tie bar, mostly on pr earned media, where gq magazine, um, esquire magazine, new York Times, whomever would write about us, and we would see an instant return with sales, like just instant bump in sales, as people started to consume media differently through social media and other ways. A it became a different way. People started consuming media in a more diverse way. So, for example, gq is to be like the one bible of men's clothing, but in a very short period of time, people were now getting their fashion advice from so many other different places. So what happened was gq became a lot less influential, um, and so therefore not so persuadable. So when we get back and I get back into a 2015, 2016,. You know, I want to start working on earned media and basically earned media.
Speaker 2:A didn't have the influence that it had just as recently as 2013.
Speaker 2:And be that they actually started changing their business model and they got into affiliate marketing and you would have to pay to be in their articles and you'd have to give them a piece of their, of your sale in order to be mentioned in the article, and that's if you get mentioned in the article.
Speaker 2:So the PR playbook had completely changed. I also completely screwed up in thinking that betting is the same as fashion, meaning that you needed to have a spring-summer collection, a fall-winter collection, and so we kept coming out with new designs before selling out of the old ones, which happens a lot in apparel. But given what the high minimums were and the number of designs we had, we could not sustain this financially from an inventory standpoint, and so we quickly had accumulated way too much unsold inventory of designs that weren't working. What I should have realized earlier, and which we finally realized later on, was that bedding sort of has, like its core designs that sell really well for a fairly long period of time, and so we started to find winners, yeah, yeah, and we found the winners and then we just restocked those and the other ones we just sort of like sold at clearance and we're able to now have a much better model.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, by that time we're a partnership of three and the three of us just never really saw our company the same way from a marketing, branding, even design standpoint and so things that just sort of it was too late and in fact when we closed up shop we were still profitable, believe it or not. We did not run out of money, we just decided it wasn't for us anymore.
Speaker 1:Right out of steam.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in eight years none of us really had cared about it. So that was another blueprint that was completely misjudged on my part, thinking that betting was the same as neckwear or men's fashion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think you know one of the elements that people talk about. You know everybody hates change, right, and you know everybody wants to grow. Everybody wants to grow, everybody wants to grow revenues and go from zero to a gazillion dollars, but nobody wants to change. And I think you and I are similar in the sense that change actually energizes me. Certainly I think it energizes you. In what ways does change energize you?
Speaker 2:I like learning new things, and so I never went to conferences when I ran Tybar. Now I try to go to as many if not conferences, webinars. I belong to a great community of e-commerce owners where everyone is sharing their experiences. Owners where everyone is sharing their experiences. And so to me, even though I've been in e-commerce 20 years, I very much can feel like a beginner and it feels like I've changed professions, even though I'm in the same profession, because so much has changed. Technology keeps changing, consumer behavior keeps changing, and so I like that. I get bored when it's the same old, same old, so I do like that.
Speaker 2:I started teaching undergraduate entrepreneurship. That was a great change in my life. I love teaching. I never realized it, but it is like a passion of mine and I love the recycling of new students every semester. I love starting over. I do think like by the end of new students every semester. I love starting over. I do think by the end of the semester with me, it's like, okay, we've gotten everything out of this Greg Sugar guy and let's move on.
Speaker 2:It's sort of like a stand-up comic going from city to city telling the same jokes. The audience laughs in the new city as if they've never heard it before, but the comic is told the joke 100 times. I kind of get tired of listening to myself talk, but when it's a new audience I'm like oh you know, wow, maybe I am funny, maybe I am insightful, uh and so um. So anyway, I do love that. But yeah, I mean, I like change in the sense that, like, I just like learning new things, which I know sounds so cliche, because there's actually, of course, some things. I hate learning new things, which I know sounds so cliche, because there's actually, of course, some things. I hate learning new things. Of my son's in med school. He talks to me about science. I have no interest in learning about science.
Speaker 1:So I guess, just to send that out, science Pause. Yeah, tell me so. I think it was in the podcast that you had sent me the e-commerce fuel. Is that the e-commerce community you were just referencing a minute ago? Yes, e-commerce fuel.
Speaker 2:If you are an e-commerce owner and you are not a member of this community. By the way, I get no royalties for this. It is just such a great place. It's just 1,200 e-commerce owners who are all pretty much experiencing what you're experiencing, and we all commiserate and try to help each other build each other up. No one's there pounding their chest. I'm the biggest, the richest, the best. Everyone comes in with their hat in their hand and says I need help and we all try to help each other.
Speaker 1:It really is amazing. Love that, love that so yeah. I wasn't aware of e-commerce fuel. Can people find it? I'm happy to give them a free plug here. Is it just ecommercefuelcom?
Speaker 2:I'm assuming yeah, it's ecommercefuelcom and it's a podcast. It happens to be a fantastic podcast as well. The founder, andrew, is a great interviewer, like you, and really like sort of gets right to the point, you know, and talks about some really relevant topics that he knows the rest of us are dealing with, and so I listen to a lot of it. It was great being on the podcast that I listen to the most. It was kind of surreal and anyway that's great.
Speaker 1:So it was on that podcast that I think you were talking about your teaching experience that you just referenced, and you said that you do not. There's no textbooks and no note-taking. What's that about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so I have. No, there is a textbook that the school has, but I don't. I always say, okay, we're going to do some reading for it. I end up assigning none. Um, I, you're not allowed to have your laptop out, you're not allowed to have your phone out. Um, no, note-taking, I do uh slides. Uh, every week I uh I don't know if you know, but the schools, most schools, have this platform called Canvas and you release all of everything on there.
Speaker 2:You administer grades and so forth, so I post everything on there. But we really mostly do group projects and so I talk about, like the topic. So let's say, marketing, I'll do a lecture, two lectures, on marketing. The whole thing's posted on Canvas so they can always see it. And then I ask them to put together a marketing campaign and just to back up a second.
Speaker 2:The class is all about group projects. I split them up into groups of three or four. I have them come up with a new business idea. I do a lecture on how to come up with new business ideation and then for the semester I pick whatever 10 class or business ideas, group them together and now they have to build up that company. And so I do a lecture on the topic, then they have to, like I said, let's say, build a marketing campaign and then they present it and we just do that all throughout the semester and I basically teach entrepreneurship the way I live it. I get rid of the stuff I know is not good for people I have a good sense of like what I'm doing wrong and I don't share that.
Speaker 2:But I have moments of doing things right and that's what I try to share with the class.
Speaker 1:This reminds me of a quote. I heard a sculptor of a quote. I heard a sculptor a sculptor of you know, beautiful, like stone sculptures of animals was asked how do you do this? You know, you start with this rock, this, you know, like cube, solid block of rock, and then you create this beautiful statue of a horse or a person or whatever. And he says, oh, it's very easy, you just take away everything that is not horse, that's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 1:Maybe not so easy but certainly said in an easy, you know, in a simple way, in a memorable way.
Speaker 2:Well, I thought the question of like, can you teach someone how to be an entrepreneur? Yeah, and I think that you can. Um, but I do think there's a mindset that you have to have. I don't and I don't agree that you're either born with it or not. Um, I think some people might think, like, the way that I do business is not traditional. The way that I think of business or operate may not be traditional, but I know it's not traditional and so I think there's ways where you could share that with people. And I think some people have those tendencies and might think, you know, this doesn't feel right, this doesn't seem right because it's unorthodox or unprofessional, but it really is sort of the right way to be an entrepreneur. So the first day of class I say, okay, everyone throw out some ideas. What would you give me a characteristic of an entrepreneur?
Speaker 2:And when they end up coming up with like 40 words, right, and the one I always get is organized, and I always say you know what that's actually doesn't belong on the list. If you are organized, you are not an entrepreneur, that's right, and so anyway. So I feel like people, you know they might say they might be unorganized people, but they feel compelled to be organized and so, anyway, I don't know where I was going with that.
Speaker 1:But you know it's interesting what you say. But organized and entrepreneur are sort of what you say. But uh, organized and entrepreneur are sort of opposite, but but also need each other, right I? I always sort of differentiate between, you know, the bureaucrats and the cowboys, right, the cowboy culture, cowboy entrepreneurs, which is more the american, just go west young man, right, yeah, um, and organized is more bureaucratic. You know, I was born and raised in Germany. It's the get the trains running on time kind of mentality which is really annoying. I mean, those two kinds of they kind of clash, right, no-transcript. You know, certainly day one of a startup versus, you know, $100 million company, you know whether that's five or 55 years later. You know it becomes less entrepreneurial and more organized, right, yeah, and sort of has to be right has to be of course.
Speaker 1:And you know, when we work with companies and try to get them from you know $20 to $50 million, they're like oh, benno, you're so organized. Well, yeah, I actually hate being organized, but you kind of have to be right for some things. The way you were describing your teaching gig and your class and inspiring students about entrepreneurialism and how to start a business, it sounds like you get energized by energizing others, energizing students. How is energizing students different from energizing employees or coworkers in your startup?
Speaker 2:Wow, that's a great question. I mean, I think that okay. So when you have a classroom, inevitably you have students who just don't want to be there. So let's keep those people out of this conversation.
Speaker 1:I do think students by and large— they left 30% of the bell curve?
Speaker 2:Yes, right, they really don't. You know, they just want to get through class. But there's a lot of students who want to learn this stuff and I think the methodology in which I teach is eye-opening to them. It's constant engagement. First day of class I say if you don't like to talk in class, if you're shy, go to drop an ad and get out of the class and go find something else, because 20% of the grade is based on your participation. So if you don't want to participate, it's fine, but you should get out of this class immediately. I like to have kids participate and I think it helps them. It's like you know, when you're in a business meeting and everyone's throwing out ideas and spitballing and all that stuff, eventually you come up with something. I think students get a lot more out of class. The more that they participate, the more that they're talking. They'll ask a question. I rarely just answer them, I take them through.
Speaker 2:Let's think why would you advertise something on social media versus Google? One is push marketing, one is pull marketing. What's the type of product that does better in search as opposed to push on social media? And we go through the process. We take their business idea and you know. So we were talking about this product, that's. It's this little, it's like this. You know this big and it's like a fire pit that you kind of hold and it really keeps you warm. And I was saying, you know, like someone said, should I do that on my um, do I do that on Google or do it on Facebook? I said, well, let's go through. Someone types on Google. They want a fire pit right. What are they thinking? What's going through their brain? Well, they're thinking of, like a fire pit right, a big fire pit in the back. Nobody's even thinking of a handheld fire pit. It's not really a thing.
Speaker 2:So of course it has to be on social media. You have to be able to show it through photos or, more importantly, probably through video, exactly what this product is. You need to give a customer a moment to say what the hell is that? I never thought I needed it before, but now that I see it I need it. That doesn't work. Whereas if someone has a black tie event coming up and they need a black tie and cummerbund, it's perfect for search marketing.
Speaker 2:You go right into Google, you type in bow tie and cummerbund, boom, you know the Facebook ads. What are the odds that the? And if you're shopping through your browser for bow tie and cover? But I can assure you it's going to start showing up in your Facebook feed. But but truly, that's where search search market engine advertising belongs. So, anyway, I like to to go through that analysis with students, and when we do that together, that's when those moments of like wow, I love this, I love the analysis that goes with this. Had I just said Facebook's better next question, I don't think they would have enjoyed it as much. And I have them participate with me in going through the analysis.
Speaker 1:Do you do that with employees and team members that are on your payroll as well?
Speaker 2:I would say, I'm a notoriously right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm a notoriously terrible manager. I'm so bad. It's not that I don't appreciate and I don't want to teach, I just like I don't know. I feel like people don't want to be lectured to. I hated being an employee and so I never want to be that kind of boss, and so what I end up doing is I end up being almost no kind of boss. And listen, I run my company remotely too, and so a lot of my emails I mean a lot of my managing has to go through email. You can imagine the misunderstandings that can happen that way. I try not to bother them. I try not to micromanage them. I try to empower them. You know, like everyone says the best leaders in power, blah, blah I'm sure I'm doing a shitty job of it I try.
Speaker 2:I'm not. I can't be good at. There's only some things I could be good at.
Speaker 1:I'm not good at that you know what, uh, you were talking earlier about? Uh, our entrepreneurs. You know born or raised, or you know born or raised, or you know born or taught to be entrepreneurs. That people say that about leaders, right, you're either a born leader or you're not. I happen to believe that I don't think of myself as a born leader. It's something that I have thought, you know, think about a lot, have thought about throughout my adult life like how can I help get others excited and get shit done at the same time? Right, because it's not just about, like in a classroom, it's sort of about get them excited and get a conversation going. There's no P&L at the end of it. There's a grade, but no P&L. You didn't, you know you or the student did not put up 50, $50,000 of their home equity to attend or make the class. You know they'll either get a good grade or not, but I think leadership is um, a tie bar.
Speaker 2:We had one person, one employee, leave us in nine years and it's because she moved from out of state. Um, and I wasn't a great manager, but we were successful and I worked my ass off and I think they saw it and they were they.
Speaker 2:They they wanted to be part of that yeah, they wanted to be part of it and so, with bow ties of vermont, which was kind of a turnaround company, that's my current company. Yeah, there was, you know, covid hit soon after I bought it and we started selling masks. We were one of the early companies that started selling masks and we went from being a $3 million company to selling $20 million over a period of two years almost overnight, right over a period of two years almost overnight, right. So we went imagine the chaos of 3 million to 20 million, especially, by the way, when you know that it's temporary because the COVID's going to end, right, and so a lot of the employees, like I, didn't manage in the way that you might get taught in school or you might read from someone giving advice on LinkedIn that you didn't ask for, but so I couldn't. I didn't necessarily do that, but I you know, our company was in danger of going out of business at first.
Speaker 2:Remember those first few moments of COVID everyone was sort of falling apart and I had to furlough everybody. At first I had 23 employees that are furloughed, but not only that, obviously, bring them back, but we almost doubled in size very quickly, and so they watched all that happen and they saw how busy we got and they saw why we were getting busy. It wasn't like you sell masks, you make money. There was a lot of intentional designing, marketing, email communication, branding, a lot of that stuff went on on and they watched me do it and I was still new. I was less than a year new to the company and I think they watched me in action sort of become an entrepreneur, because when you were selling masks it was like a.
Speaker 2:It was finally one of these races where everyone starts at the starting line at the same time, because before COVID, nobody sold a mask Right, and so all of a sudden, all these businesses and entrepreneurs are lining up to start selling masks and we I don't know that we won the race, but we definitely did very well in the race and I think they watched it happen and they were inspired by that. Nobody left me and people stuck around and I, of course, rewarded them for sticking around, anyway. So, like again for leadership, like I suck at being a manager, but I do believe that performance and focus and things like that can really inspire your employees to do well, rather than just always patting them on the back because they did something well or giving them autonomy. All those things matter, but I think it sometimes can be more.
Speaker 1:I'm with you, I'm going to leave it. I've really enjoyed this conversation and I love the way in which you just you know, freely and openly share sort of the good, the bad and the ugly. Here's stuff I know. Here's stuff that's worked really well for me.
Speaker 2:here's stuff eh, not so much.
Speaker 1:If folks wanted to get in touch with you. I don't know if they can find you on LinkedIn, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, linkedin I like to use as like a Rolodex, and a little bit of a um, I like to I don't know what you'd call it, but anyway, um, no, I I use LinkedIn. Uh, I, you know I don't want to be sold anything. I already have enough of that in my inbox, but I love connecting with people for true connections, not to be sold anything, um, and then we can start there and, depending what the conversation is, we can always move it offline, that sort of thing. But it's an easy way to follow me. And then our, my company is bow ties, spelled b-e-a-u, so b-e-a-u ties, t-i-e-s, l-t-dcom yeah, so like limited yeah, perfect, that's our website, thank you thank you.
Speaker 1:thank you for hopping on this episode and sharing your pearls of wisdom and other and just wisdom. This was a lot of fun. Thank you so much, greg All right, take care All right. Thank you for listening to this episode of TGO Podcast. You can find all episodes on our podcast page at wwwrealign4resultscom. You can find me, Benno, host of TGO Podcast, there as well. Just email, benno B-E-N-N-O at realign4resultscom. Let's keep growing.
