The Third Growth Option with Benno Duenkelsbuehler and Guests

Consumer Research How-To’s with Shehnaz Safiuddin

• Benno Duenkelsbuehler • Season 2 • Episode 14

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Get the inside scoop on mastering consumer research with Shehnaz Safiuddin, a pro in brand strategy and consumer insights. In this episode, we dig into how combining qualitative and quantitative methods can give you a sharper view of consumer behavior, helping you make smarter, more strategic business decisions.

Shehnaz breaks down the nuts and bolts of primary versus secondary research, offering practical tips on using focus groups, in-depth interviews, and ethnographic studies. Whether you're a seasoned marketer or just dipping your toes into market research, these insights will help you cut through the noise and avoid analysis paralysis.

We also chat about how to gather valuable insights when direct customer data isn’t easy to come by. Learn from the playbooks of legends like Steve Jobs and Henry Ford, who knew how to tap into consumer needs and turn them into game-changing products. Plus, we cover flexible research strategies that fit any budget—whether you’re going all-in with outsourced studies or taking the DIY route with tools like SurveyMonkey and Google Forms. 

Stay curious, stay adaptable, and make sure your brand story hits home with your audience.

Always growing.

Benno Duenkelsbuehler

CEO & Chief Sherpa of (re)ALIGN

reALIGNforResults.com

benno@realignforresults.com

Speaker 1:

Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast, where we talk about all things growth, yes, even and especially those hard parts where you shed some skin and pick yourself up by the bootstraps. Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler, growth Sherpa and OG hashtag growth nerd. We're on a mission to redefine success inside and outside the business, one TGO episode at a time.

Speaker 2:

Hi, I'm Shanaa Safiuddin, here in sunny Chicago today and I am a brand strategy and consumer insights slash market research consultant. I started my own consultancy a couple of years ago and thank you, Benno, for having me as your guest today.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I'm Benno, your host. This is TGO Podcast and I'm excited to just demystify really the consumer research. Just demystify really the consumer research, how you do it, how you tell your clients to do it, why you do it. Shanaz, you and I have known each other for going on 10 years or so, yeah, so I know you and respect you as a marketer, but I also know you're a very intentional person, and the reason I know that is because you're a black belt taekwondo martial artist, and the reason I know what that means is because I happen to have a wife and a daughter who are that I got into some kind of, you know, belt, number six out of 10 color belt which I took purely for self-defense at home. But you know, I think the fact that you're very intentional as a person and as a professional is worth noting. And so you founded Snapkick Marketing a couple years ago. You and I got to know each other through board work at Precious Moments, where you were VP of marketing for some five years and you were with Fisher Price 13 years total, four years once, and then came back in nine years another time. Um, and you know you have a great background with other uh, just, very well-known brands, godiva and uh, general mills and um, uh, top supermarkets which I remember from my days in upstate new york.

Speaker 1:

Um, but market research and and insights that whole topic can be so overwhelming. Also misused, I find, oftentimes sort of in boardrooms, as an excuse for making decisions hey, let's get more data, let's get more research, sort of an excuse for analysis, paralysis. But getting good data and tying them together into helpful insights. You know, I think it can be as simple as having a five-minute conversation with the right person asking the right questions, I agree, and it can be as extensive or expensive as spending $50,000 or $5 million on, you know, a long, a long, drawn out, academic and also super helpful process.

Speaker 1:

Um, talk a little bit just through. Just talk a little bit through the differences of qualitative and quantitative data. Um, and and sure, yeah, just, are you ready to learn how to evaluate like a sherpa so you can build new revenues like a Sherpa? Introducing our growth evaluation workshops where you will learn about growth evaluation concepts and methodologies, problem definition, growth killers, opportunity scoping and goal setting, case studies and group discussions, apply learnings cross-functionally and get a certificate while you add it For you, for your company, for your growth, growth evaluation workshops. For booking, contact Alexis at realignforresultscom.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So qualitative data is great when you really want to see the consumer's reactions and experience their behavior firsthand and really understand their underlying motivations. And some examples of qualitative research are focus groups, which everybody's heard about. Focus groups there's in-depth interviews which are kind of one-on-ones. You can do ethnographic research, which means you're actually truly experienced the consumer using your product or going through their sort of day-to-day process for any particular thing that you're trying to explore. Quantitative research lets you draw generalized conclusions among a much broader audience. So you're going to probably, you know, survey hundreds of people. It can have statistical significance because you're talking to so many people, a large enough sample size where you can actually draw some bigger conclusions. So they work really well hand in hand. You're usually not going to do just one or the other.

Speaker 1:

And well, let me ask another question On the quantitative data you know you talked about. You know, maybe surveying 100 people or 1000 people and getting data points from that. It's also just market data, right? I mean just looking at a billion dollar market that buys this type of product and consists of those types of demographics and psychographics, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so you bring up a good point actually. So within research, there's two big buckets of research Actually. There's primary research, which is kind of what I was just talking about when you were asking me about qualitative and quantitative. That's primary research. It's firsthand data that you own. So you're commissioning it, perhaps working with an outside vendor, You're targeting it to your specific audience, you have a specific objective in mind and this research is done just for you.

Speaker 2:

And then there is the second bucket, which is some of the stuff that I think you're alluding to, which is called secondary research. It's also called desk research, and a lot of times you'll do desk research or secondary research at the beginning of a project, to get the lay of the land, to try to understand the landscape, like you were talking about, sort of industry information and things like that. So there's a lot of free information available out there or reports that aren't too expensive that can shed some light on your business question. You know at hand at that moment. There's syndicated data, there's retailer scan data. So if you're already in the marketplace and you have great relationships with your retailers, they can give you scan data for your own product. There's trade journals, industry studies, trends, associations like WGSN happens to be one I've used before. They do a lot of different reports on different demographic segments and things. There's reviews. There's your customer. So your customer is actually can provide secondary research through their reviews, through customer generated data like social media posts and things like that, or influencers, things that they say. And then there's online research, which, of course, when I started my career 30 plus years ago, we didn't have online research, but you can Google pretty much anything and get some pretty good information, including competitor information.

Speaker 2:

So there is a lot of information out there at your fingertips Well, maybe I shouldn't say it's at your fingertips. Sometimes you have to do a little bit of digging, but you can get a pretty good lay of the land through secondary research. That helps you then sort of formulate some hypotheses, maybe find a little bit of white space. And, by the way, secondary research also includes any internal information you might have. So companies have internal information from studies that they did years ago. They have their own internal scan data. They have their own data of what they're shipping you know more or less of. So there's a lot of information like that you can use to create sort of that initial hypothesis or direction for where you want to go, and then you can get into the primary research after that and there's also a lot of you know.

Speaker 1:

You know is around $100, $120 million. You know you can find resources that say resources that say that they did $4 million last year or they did $300 million last year.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, and you do have to. I don't want to say take it with a grain of salt, but I think you need to know where to look and what types of information. So, for example, when we were working together at Precious Moments and I was working on some strategy, some kind of new strategy, new direction that we wanted to head in, you know, I was relatively new to the company and one of the first things I did was take a look at some trade journals. So you know, home and Deck is. You know there's a. It's a big journal that's used in the, in the giftware industry, and they do some of their own research. So actually they do their own quantitative research but because we subscribed, I could go in and look at their reports and you know that that's actually valid, factual information. So you do have to think about when you're online, like with anything, you have to actually make sure that you're vetting it a little bit so that you're not just listening to. You know Every bit of information you find there.

Speaker 2:

But there is a decent amount of information that you can get, that is that is factual.

Speaker 1:

So my favorite quote that is sort of a knock on market research is the famous Henry Ford quote. If I had asked them what kind of car they wanted, they would have said a faster horse, right yeah. And I think you know. If I had asked them what kind of car they wanted, they would have said a faster horse, right yeah. And I think you know Ford company.

Speaker 1:

You know, with the Model T a century ago, and Apple Steve Jobs and Apple, I think, are both highly innovative companies that got extremely important insights that they couldn't get from asking the customer a direct question would you like an iPhone? Because an iPhone didn't exist. And the customer would you like? You know, would you like? You know? What kind of a car do you want? Well, I want a faster horse, because that's the frame of reference that the customer has. So talk a little bit about, you know, bridging that gap when you cannot get data directly from the customer and you have to sort of you know. I mean there were other data points that Steve Jobs and Henry Ford found that made them think you know what? I bet you a Model T might be a thing. I bet you an iPhone might be a thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, that's a, it's a really it's an interesting point. So you know, here's the thing about market research it really can do a lot of different things, not just one thing. So it does help you understand the consumer, and even in that situation, you know the fast for horse situation. Understanding the consumer is important. It helps you identify opportunities and mitigate some risks. Now you know you're talking about new technology and real innovation when you talk about iPhones, and you know the first automobile and things like that.

Speaker 2:

What's interesting, though, like in the Ford example, the key takeaway is understanding that people. What people really wanted was to get somewhere more quickly. So, instead of, oh, I want a faster horse, it's actually. So. There's two things actually when I think about market research slash, consumer insights. Market research, to me, is the data. Consumer insights is sort of the analysis and what you take away from it. So the consumer if they you know, if they told Henry Ford that you know, I want a faster horse, they're really telling him that they want to get somewhere more quickly. So his job was to show consumers that his car is, that his car is the faster horse, you know we can't get horses to actually run faster, but this is your faster horse.

Speaker 2:

So research might not, you know, you might not. If you did, you know, if I before did sort of a concept test like we do now, you know and show, you know, the Model T or whatever, maybe it wouldn't get good ratings. So there's a certain amount of risk that you do take when you're leading edge, when you're coming into a whole new category, a whole new world. And I can give you one example that I didn't personally work on but that I heard about when I first entered the toy industry. So I did spend about 16, 18 years in the toy industry at a couple of companies, most at Fisher Price, which you mentioned, and when I first got to Fisher Price this was in the 90s, so it was about 10 years after baby monitors were first launched. But I had heard stories about how when baby monitors were first researched with moms, they didn't like it at all because they felt like I don't need this, because if I have this it means I'm not being a good mom. It's my job to watch the baby, so I'm not doing a good job.

Speaker 2:

But companies in the children's products industry knew that there was some benefit to it and the benefit for mom is multifold in terms of her being able to do the dishes and still kind of listen. I mean back in the day it was listen. Today you can watch, but you know back. You know, 40 years ago you were listening for baby's voice. It allowed mom to not have to go into the room to check the baby and maybe possibly wake them up, you know.

Speaker 2:

So there were a lot of benefits. So it's really taking the data and understanding, going a little bit deeper, beyond what they say and understanding the motivation behind what they're saying. And also it helps in sort of the marketing right, like you have to market it in a way, now that you know mom is maybe a little bit resistant because it makes her feel like she's not being a good mom. How do you talk to her about it so that she understands that it's actually helping her and it's a way to be a quote-unquote good mom, uh, and even like naming for example, dad could be, or good dad, yeah, yeah, absolutely parents.

Speaker 2:

I mean parents in general you know I I'm going back 40 years ago. It was probably more moms, no offense, no offense to anybody, but yeah, parents In general. For parents it's beneficial, but market research and that information helps the company know how to even name it. So if you go back and you look at baby monitors, they were called nursery monitors in the 1980s, nursery monitors, so it was for your nursery, it wasn't like for baby.

Speaker 1:

If you look at them now, they're called baby monitors because you're for your nursery.

Speaker 2:

It wasn't like for baby. If you look at them now, they're called baby monitors because you're monitoring your baby. Um, so there was a lot of information that research can provide and these consumer insights can provide even for leading edge technology. It helps you with marketing, it helps you with positioning and understanding. Um kind of. It helps you build a brand story, really, because you need to understand where the parents are coming from, what their mindset is, and create a story that resonates with them.

Speaker 1:

That makes your product meaningful that you can glean from what is going through a customer's mind and heart and consumer's hearts and minds. The idea of market research as a three-inch binder that you're supposed to, you know, commission and then read and then act upon, sort of goes out the window with that For me, because a well-done market research study is also one of a bunch of different data points. Again, right, I mean, I did a podcast a few weeks ago with the CEO of a major clothing brand who told me that you know, I talk to 10 or 15 customers every quarter. I make a point to have a Zoom call with you know, for 20 or 30 minutes and that gives her a bunch of data points. She also does the three inch binder market research, and that's another data point.

Speaker 1:

And I think it's so important to just you know my, my one of my mentors, mentors when I was at Pottery Barn, you know, guy Gary Friedman. He would say look, as a good merchant, your job is to have open eyes and open ears, listen to the customer, watch the customer understand, and you know. So I think the right approach for customer research, consumer research and developing insights depends on the situation, doesn't it? Because what you do for a $20 billion general mills is different than for a $20 million you know precious moments or other type of company that's, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and there's lots of different ways. Well, first of all, two different questions kind of here or thoughts. You know, one is, yeah, you know, market research, consumer insights. It is one data point and then there's many more pieces that you pull together to create what your brand strategy is going to be. So it's a piece of the puzzle. It's not the whole entire solution necessarily In terms of sort of that three-inch binder.

Speaker 2:

Well, nobody wants a three-inch binder anymore. Everybody wants sort of like the fast, quick top line. So even if you do a commissioned, a little bit more pricey, using an outside vendor type of research study, there's a lot of emphasis in terms of sort of reporting being quick and to the point and you've got the three-inch binder worth of data behind it all. But you're like, what's the top line? So it's really important for me with new clients, or with any clients, is to just really here's what we learned, here's sort of like the key items. That executive summary becomes much, much more important now because people, you know everything's moving at a little bit of a faster pace and there are lots of data points and and all of that. But when you're working for a smaller organization, there's a couple of different ways that you can do research, because I also work I'm on the board of a nonprofit and sometimes we need to do research and there's lots of different ways to do it. So there is that pricey outsourced option that we were just talking about, where you use an experienced research vendor. They recruit, they write their questionnaire, they moderate the focus groups if you're doing qualitative and they manage the process from soup to nuts, analyze the learnings and kind of present you with this. You know it's not a three-inch binder anymore, now it's a fancy schmancy PowerPoint with, you know, all kinds of animations. So there's that.

Speaker 2:

And the other end of the spectrum is what we kind of call DIY, and that's where you know it can be inexpensive. I mean there's different things that you get from the price you're wanting. You're going to be able to go and really get the target audience that you want. You can do, you know, blind studies. There's a lot that you can do when you're outsourcing and spending the big bucks on that kind of research, and there's a time and a place for that. But you know, a lot of times I'll hear smaller companies say, well, I can't afford to do any market research. So for them, you know this DIY is an option. It's just a way to at least get some information. It may not have statistical significance. There might be a little bit of bias because you're talking to people you know significance. There might be a little bit of bias because you're talking to people you know.

Speaker 2:

But what you can do is you can use your company database or a friends and a family network. So, for example, if you have a decent sized company and you're looking for I don't know consumers who have a certain age child, you just survey your own employees and say who has somebody you know who has children. That's that age and you kind of use them and you can do. You can conduct your own focus groups. You try to not be biased when you're doing that, but you can kind of do your own qualitative research or you can use some easy basic survey software like SurveyMonkey and Google Forms and JotForms or Qualtrics. There's different resources out there that if you need to do some very inexpensive research just to get pointed in the right direction, you can.

Speaker 2:

The other thing and then there's sort of that in between, the hybrid which I call DIY with help so you can use a research vendor to help you recruit.

Speaker 2:

So maybe you are getting exactly the consumer you want. They're not affiliated with your company, they're kind of outside and the vendor can help you recruit and manage and maybe even provide some basic data. But you can develop the screener, you develop the questionnaire, you develop the discussion guide and you can do the analysis yourself. They can just give you the data in a spreadsheet and you look at the numbers, you can kind of analyze it. So you know, the point here is that yes, there is very expensive research studies that you can do out there and you know it's great. I work for some big companies and we did a lot of that. But, as you know, when you and I, when you and I work together, we're working for I was working for a smaller company and we did a lot of that sort of hybrid type of situation where we wanted those outside consumers but we did a lot of the analysis in-house ourselves. So there's a solution, there's a way to get some direction and some consumer insights, no matter what your budget is.

Speaker 1:

And you know, I introduced you, you know, as you know, using the word intentional and I used your Taekwondo, black belt, martial artistry to illustrate that point. And if you're just very intentional about, hey, I want to ask some questions to which I think I have the answer, but I think I might be wrong and I'm open to maybe I've been looking at it the wrong way, right, all the data that I have seen pointed me in this direction. But I'm going to ask some open-ended questions of some other people that have another perspective and they may lead me in a different direction and, hallelujah, that would be great because I'll be smarter at the end of that process, right? I mean, isn't that sort of the way you approach it, regardless of whether you're spending 10 bucks or a million bucks?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, curiosity is actually what keeps businesses going, right, if you rest on your laurels and businesses change, you know, like Blockbuster, for example. Right, like we all went to Blockbuster stores, we all spent Friday evenings with our kids at Blockbuster.

Speaker 2:

Right, I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of examples, right. So I like to think about, you know, building brands and as building brands that stand the test of time while keeping up with the times, and that's where that curiosity that you're talking about leads you. So it's really, you know, internally, you can look at the internal information you have. You can look at your competitor information, talk to your retailers and generate some hypotheses or some direction. Right, we come up with, hey, we think this type of product line or this type of extension might make sense for our business. And then you do the research. And it is good, you know, it's good to get the research, because sometimes you don't get the answer you wanted, and then you have to. You have to kind of like shift gears or pivot a little bit and say, oh okay, well, here's what I learned from it, we can go in this direction instead.

Speaker 2:

So yeah so there's always. There's always some learning and you know that. What's interesting is, you know I was talking about how you can do research at any sort of budget level and you know, if you need to, you can maybe try to do your own focus groups. It can be hard to do qualitative research for your own company, because you're talking about sometimes we get, we get an idea and we really love it and we want that idea to work and we want that idea to win when we do research and we want to bring that to fruition and all of that. So if you're doing your own qualitative, sometimes it is nice to have a third party, because they won't lead the audience if you will.

Speaker 1:

We have a tendency I mean we're all biased and then we have a tendency to maybe ask leading questions. Exactly Leave the witness, as they say in the court system people to just not forget about research and using research to get actionable insights.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my final words, I guess, on it is that research doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't have to be the three-ring binder, but listening to your consumer any way you can is helpful, you know, and even if it's a product line, that's leading edge.

Speaker 1:

It's non-negotiable. Come on, listening to your customer is non-negotiable, it is, it is non-negotiable yeah it is?

Speaker 2:

It is, I mean, even customer satisfaction surveys Like so. Really, I guess here's what it is. Throughout my 30-plus year career working on some pretty big brands and even now as a consultant, I view market research and consumer insights as helping to create that foundation of understanding, to understand what your consumer is saying, what's going on trend-wise in the environment, in society, with technology, and keep up with all of that so that you can take that to your products and your brand strategy.

Speaker 1:

Open eyes and ears.

Speaker 2:

Open eyes and ears, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Terrific. Thank you so much Naz.

Speaker 2:

This was awesome. Thanks for having me Appreciate it. All right, thank you, take care. All right, take care, bye-bye.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to this episode of TGO Podcast. You can find all episodes on our podcast page at wwwrealign4resultscom. You can find me, Benno, host of TGO podcast, there as well. Just email Benno B-E-N-N-O at realignforresultscom. Let's keep growing, Thank you.

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